[TheDopp]

1) engineers are definitely the problem.
2) other servers don't count
3) prophunt
4) gg

1) Part of, not the whole thing. Junction sucks because it's too small, not because of engies.
2) That thinking is why the community is dying.
3) PH is almost always full, because its popular. The pro server could be shut down and replaced with whatever the kids are playing. Dogeball or mario cart or whatever. New players = new people to pay money to support the community.
4) <3


And Fusion - I agree with everything except Turbine because no. No.

Though to reiterate - we can change the non-populated servers to other things (CTF servers, PL servers, etc) to "save" the maps cut from Valve1. Theoretically of course, because we havent been able to even get a rotation change in a year.

[Happycheeze]

Which server are you referring to? Valve maps? 2fort? Or all the sourceop servers?

[Ajax]

+1 to everything Fusion said. The voting system in particular seems really flawed, and if we can't get rid of some of the cancer maps (ctf well and ctf sawmill being the worst imo) we should at least have a more reliable method of skipping them. Having to play certain maps after 55-65% of people have voted against it is never fun.

[drinkingantifreeze]

the huge amount of bad maps chased me off to greener pastures (competitive play). in fact, if the valve maps server was regularly updated with a better rotation then I would probably not be playing competitive highlander right now

[Qwo]

To make the admins' jobs easier, here is the mapcycle.txt with the server-emptying maps removed.

Code:

cp_gravelpit
cp_dustbowl
cp_granary
cp_well
tc_hydro
cp_badlands
pl_goldrush
cp_fastlane
ctf_turbine
pl_badwater
cp_steel
cp_egypt_final
cp_junction_final
plr_pipeline
koth_nucleus
cp_yukon_final
pl_hoodoo_final
cp_gorge
koth_lakeside_final
cp_freight_final1
pl_upward
pl_thundermountain
koth_harvest_final
cp_coldfront
cp_mountainlab
cp_degrootkeep
koth_viaduct
cp_5gorge
pl_frontier_final
koth_badlands
pl_barnblitz
cp_gullywash_final1
cp_foundry
koth_king
plr_nightfall

Of note is that the motd says Kong King and Nightfall are in the rotation, yet they clearly aren't, so I've added them at the end.

I feel like this is a good starting point. Adding custom maps (or pro versions of official ones) should wait for a later time and squabbling about generally disliked maps (as opposed to server-emptying ones) should as well.

Anyway, since I'm sure the admins have functioning ctrl-c/ctrl-v keys, there's really no reason after this point for the server rotation to stay as it is beyond stubborn pigheadishness. SourceOP Valve Maps #1 has an excellent long-standing community that should be fostered, not ignored.

With love,
Qwo

[[GNG]Thunder]

1.) Engineers are not the problem on maps, period. I can take just about any gun by myself even wrangled; a slightly drunk demo can blindly kill a sentry (Enforcer). The rotation is the problem. I've never heard/seen in chat/voice "that engineer ruined this map." But I've seen and said "xxx map is coming up (Badlands, Junction, Sawmill etc.. for me), see ya later." It happens ALL the time. Keep maps that fill the server, can support a full 32 persons, and don't make people leave. Everyone has their pet maps and hated ones but there's a good consensus among the regulars (your donors) that certain maps need tweaked (Hightower) or need to go. (2Fort, Sawmill)

2.)good admins
3.) Customs do kill, but flavors of the week fill.
4.) I disagree that TF2 is dying. Look at the numbers, down but not abysmal. Plus F2P means more people trying the game everyday. Build your community and people will come. I still tell everyone I meet at the LANs I go to that they should be donating $10 to SourceOP because it has the best people to play with. If you want the community to die, ignore it and see what happens. It's your choice and I would rather play on a full server with people I've known for a while then keep playing with donks that uber scouts to take out sentries.

[[DAâ„¢] S-w-e-e-T [GER]]

Once upon a time, I met a nice player on a crappy dustbowl server, called Primo_IT.
I had very much fun to play with him and followed him to a server called SourceOP.
It was hard to get in, but for me as a noob that time, it was a wonderland.
Fun, action and abilites I never saw before - I tried to support the most time as a medic.

That's where I learned all the tricks and most of my present-day abilities.
It was so great, that I even decided to pay money for a reserved slot, because I always had to wait around 10 minutes to get in, always in hope not to get kicked for someone else.
And today? It's useless... I always get a slot. And most time of the day, I have the chance to play a game against the replay-bot.

I always recognize, how intense some of my friends try to join people for it, but when the next crappy map is advertised, it becomes empty again.
So it's time to change something. I really don't know how, but there are people who do. So please listen to them.

BTW: I blame the koth-maps. It's no fun to get stuck in respawn for 20 seconds + 10 seconds for the way back to the battlements in a mapround of 3-6 minutes.

[Enforcer{EMC}]

hi all
really womb raider, seriously, no offense but you don't even play enough on number 1 server to know what people want. Take the time to listen to what the community is asking for to make the server a lot better most of us have played here for many years and we for the most part have a great community of regulars and for the most part there all asking for a change to HELP the server for the love of god listen to them. The sever is empty most of the time now how can changing the map rotation make that worse???

Here is a copy of a letter Sith me Micheal and Colo and some others wrote to df with suggested changes. All changes were well thought out by people that play here all the time and understand the eb and flow of the sever best and actually care about maintaining the community for the number 1 server. There is nothing to radical there that the regulars don't know about and it would save us constantly asking for map changes to prevent the server emptying on hated maps which happens on a daily basis

womb raider really BE constructive and helpful rather than attacking people for having an opinion
personal attacks just expose you personality flaws a lesson for you IRL

Regards to the community
Enforcer{EMC}


hi DF
firstly thank you for taking the time to have a look at this I know your extremely busy but we ( we being most of the regulars that have been here since day one) feel that it would help the server to not only stay alive longer but encourage new players to the community whilst retaining the interest of the current community. This having been said everyone appreciates the massive effort that you and the other source op admins put in for our enjoyment. I hope you will consider the changes in that light:

The Maps that need to be removed most of all
CTF Well. Junction. 2Fort. Hydro. Sawmills (2), Doublecross. Doomsday. Hightower. All of these maps are either prone to unbalanced teams no matter what, hated by the community (gauged by the way they empty the server when they come on). Hightower is a fairly decent map with open space and, while tipped in favor of pyros, it can be playable sometimes.However the timer seems to be broken, and even a single win can take upwards of 10 to 15 minutes, so unless it can be limited to automatically changing maps after a single win it would be best to be removed from the list.

maps to be added

Croissant. Obscure. Snakewater. Swiftwater. Warpath. Process. Follower
Viaduct pro and Turbine pro should both be added to replace their counterparts.


I think it'd be cool to add these maps and see if the server likes em or not, They're a bit wonky from what I've seen or played but might be liked. :
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Converge
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Cashworks
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Glacier
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/sh...?t=2482933 pl_borneo)

Our hope is that these changes will help the community retain its interest in the source op 1 and remove some of the staleness from the rotation
we realize that this proposes a lot of changes but most of us are certain it will reinvigorate the server especially new maps

hope to talk soon
kind regards
Andy - Enforcer{EMC}

[Meical {EMC}]

If the admins don't want to change the map rotation(which is understandable in that they want to have the map rotation be stock) there are a few simple solutions to this issue.
1) Adding a new admin(s) to the server (that way we have someone on who can enforce rules and skip maps, etc)
2) Fixing the voting system

You can easily see that the server is less full more and more so if the stubbornness of people is what is the problem then I suggest you look at the play rates of #1. The problems have caused a lot of people to uproot and take comfort in another server or another game. It seems from chatter in game that these problems are all becoming too prevalent. I for one do not wish the community there to have to leave for another server which is administered properly and takes notice of what people are complaining about. That is their job correct?

~:Meical

[CaptainAmerica]

Thus far, the counter-arguments to changing the rotation have no relevance towards keeping the server full. Cutting out the unpopular maps is the only way to retain players past nine o clock. Valve Maps #2 went dormant because of this same problem. The reality is that this problem has gone on too long to even be fixed by changing the rotation. However, doing so would be an improvement.

The following is a list of maps that will attract and retain players: cp_dustbowl, cp_badlands, pl_goldrush, cp_fastlane, pl_badwater.
This is a list of the maps that will usually retain players: cp_gravelpit, cp_granary, cp_well, ctf_turbine, cp_steel, cp_egypt_final, pl_hoodoo_final, cp_degrootkeep, cp_foundry. The second list is open to some interpretation, but in general these are the maps that work.

Considering the problem and the maps listed, the rotation should either: A) Consist solely of maps from the first list B) Some how integrate the second list into the first. I would suggest that maps from the second list have potential to be voted in or remain in the rotation up until midnight, where they would then be locked out until noon the next day. The core idea here is that the lousy/unpopular maps no longer have a place on SourceOP, because TF2 is no longer booming and VM#1 no longer has a strong following. The next best idea is to shut down the Valve Maps servers, for as they exist now they aren't worth maintaining.