[turntechGodhead]

What Bacon said about Medieval. It's fixable, but not really worth it, so I'd suggest trashing it.

Keep an eye on Trainset, see how people feel. It's fun, but not really as a PH map.

Range is still a horrible map, but I suppose if no one else is crying about it...

Also, there are two spooky harvests. I don't remember which one is better. Either one works as a full replacement for vanilla Harvest though, so you might want to think about just dropping vanilla.

[Gutty]

looks good dopp, i'd suggest separating the farm maps a little. not really an issue but one after the other could get annoying.
have you checked desolation? it used to crash the server when i tried running it last year.

apart from that wee gripe im happy with the change.
thanks!!!

[TheDopp]

We scrapped Medieval, looking to scrap Trainset (just for the stupid spawn door). Harvest is a good time (the version of spooky) - it's opened up and wasn't a 30 second kill-fest for Red every time I played it. And desolation worked fine, if being a bit tiny.
I'm currently dicking around with converting a valvemap to a PH map (with Butane acting as creative consultant) so we'll see how that goes.
I know there are versions of Manor event out there that are supposed to be good, and one of Lakeside that was just released. Curious as to if they're worth adding.

[shooter1231]

Hey Dopp, I played a game with you earlier and you directed me here. I also happen to be the person who made ph_lakeside. Should you want to use it for the server, here's the link for the map (https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6mymll130n3ll...e_b3.bsp?m) and the config (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmg8n0wugdvkv3...e_b3.cfg?m).

If you do decide to use the manor event maps I'd suggest using ph_manoroutside over ph_manor_event but that's just my opinion; the former is a map based on the outdoors portion of the cp_manor_event map while the latter is based only on the inside portion. I can get you a link for the outside version of the map and config if you want.

As for certain maps that are on and off the server, arena_harvest, ph_headquarters, ph_maze, and arena_farm_feud: having played all four quite a bit on two different versions of prop hunt, I can say they're much more fun for the people that get to shoot than the people that have to hide. Every one of them is very small - I don't think Maze is any bigger than 2500x2500 hammer units.

Also, what map are you working on converting to prop hunt? I'm nearly done with a prop hunt version of ctf_haunt and then I have Viaduct and 2Fort on my plate after that; if you're doing one of those latter two I won't bother working on it as I see no point in having two versions. Also if there's any interest in ph_haunt over here I can drop in a link when it's done.

Thanks
Shooter

[TheDopp]

I appreciate the links, I heard good things about Lakeside thus far. Though I've heard mixed thoughts on all the manor conversions (Event is too big, Outside is too sparse, etc).
Farm Feud and Maze were explicitly excluded from the rotation exactly because they were 'Harvest but smaller'. Thus far everyone seems to be responding well to the rotation (excluding Trainset which has the technical issue in the door and as a few have echoed 'too big'), aside from the 'I have to learn new things' argument.
I'm currently putting the final touches on a Junction conversion (just have to do some lighting tweaks and finalizing the prop list config). The regulars who checked it out (aside from Butane) weren't familiar with the CP version so their reaction was 'It's big and complex', but they enjoyed finding hiding spots (it's really not that big - smaller than Farm).
I'm currently torn between Turbine and Gorge conversions next, but will probably do the former (since I have to decide which awesome third of Gorge to leave out, or add in randomization in the form of map area to hide/hunt in). After Turbine (and if not then Gorge) I'm only looking at Freight (okay so not just freight, but also maybe the 1st stage of hoodoo, Hightower, 1st stage of Pipeline, making my own stupid original map and other bad ideas are also things I'm tossing around). 2fort would be fun to see though and I'd be curious what you'd do in Viaduct as it seems so small.

[shooter1231]

I had heard mixed reviews of both manor versions too, but they were both quite different from what you mentioned. Manor event is the inside of the manor which ends up in BLU winning every round. The map itself is really small, smaller than harvest, and there's tons of thin passageways. This is just my opinion but I don't think indoors maps go over very well because they almost never provide enough space for props to run around should they be found; many of the hallways in manor event are small enough that any BLU class completely blocks a RED in. There's also lots of dead ends. Of course it's different on this server because once you're found you're likely going to die, but there's more emphasis on survival over on the GM style servers and that's where many of the indoor maps are.

Manor outside, on the other hand, I've heard was too big and cluttered, not sparse. In reality, it's not that big but it has similar amounts of vertical distance as goldtooth and far more small props such as red barrels and pumpkins. It's definitely an easier map for RED than BLU but I like it myself.

My issue with junction would be the small maze of tunnels at the intersection of the A/B/C points and the small doorways between red spawn and A/B. Tunnels small enough for a single BLU team member to block are hell on any red that wants to survive, usually whoever gets a small prop and puts it in a decent spot. After running around for a little bit as demo, I can definitely see some neat spots provided you did some work with the player clip areas. Given that other people think that it's too big, I think it might be too cramped. The map size looks great to me but the three separate rooms look to be easy to check once you know the map and the lack of open space makes it difficult for props to run.

As for Turbine and Gorge, I think they're both fantastic maps in stock TF2 but I'd advise against doing Turbine for reasons mentioned above; indoor maps tend to be fairly cramped and (assuming you're not doing the UGC version of Turbine) I can't see very many spots being opened up in the one or two open areas. Also, I think Gorge might be too big for you to only cut 1/3 out. I can see it being split into two maps, one being the indoors area, possibly with doorways widened, and one being the second and last points of the 5CP version of either side, I'm fairly sure they're identical. Freight middle point I can see working really well, as well as all of the other maps you're thinking about.

I don't know how much experience you have with Hammer but after I finished lakeside I went to work on my own map and it was quite overwhelming, haha.

As for Viaduct, I think everything can be made to feel bigger by removing a lot of the player clip areas. Lakeside is fairly restricted in where you can and can't move but it is a large map. I ended up having to cut off the original red spawn area in order to open up enough previously restricted area to make it fun, so it's only about 7/10 of the original map, but I think it turned out well. I'd probably do the same thing with Viaduct, minus the cutting off of one spawn. I'd probably open up most if not all of the roofs near main and choke as well as the rocks on the cliff near mid. I'd also have to widen the three entrances going to each spawn to prevent a single pyro being able to completely block a scout.

[WombRaider]

use the latest viaduct pro version for the base viaduct map. might save you some troubles

[shooter1231]

I'm using the version UGC uses. I don't know if that's the latest but it seems to work fine.

[Butane]

@shooter: besides spots and a few ledges, a lot of my feedback to dopp was allowing more egress by making a lot of his newly opened area "gateways" larger, I'm sure you can add him and he will link you the current build or join us when we are on testing it out.