Poll: What should be done with reserved slots? - You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Leave the limit at 12 (i.e. do nothing)
17.86%
5
17.86%
Increase the limit to 16
53.57%
15
53.57%
Increase the limit to 20 or more
14.29%
4
14.29%
Go on a monthly system to reduce number of people with slots
14.29%
4
14.29%
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Reserved slot situation
#11

Retribution Wrote:you could always make a pay to play server, one where you have to donate to play Big Grin
but i still think you should try to limit reserve slot, not everyone can give money, and i don't think that denying them the right to ever play is ok, i mean some like me just can't afford it, i mean i have to pay for college, rent, food, gas, water, phone, Internet, cable, and insurance, i can't really afford to donate, but i can still get one if i'm willing to wait, don't want that option taken away

for the time being though your making 2X what you spend a month, do you really need to change it, i mean really, lets not get to greedy here unless your trying to get like a billion servers, and monopolizes the world of TF2 :roll:

I think this whole thing has very, very, very little to do with greed.
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#12

i know that, i'm just saying DF is making out good already, anymore and you risk stepping on toes that don't need be stepped on :?
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#13

That is the issue though. No matter which way this goes, some one will feel as if their toes have been stepped.

I think increasing the slots to 16 and keeping things the same is the best compromise. Half the server is reserved, half is public. Other wise it needs to be one or the other. 32 slots, monthly fee or a simple 'thank you' for a donation with a slightly higher chance of joining the server than someone who has not donated.

I think what bothers me personally about the whole thing is the semantics. If it is required that you donate so you can play, it is not a donation. It is a fee.

If it is not required to pay a fee and some one gives money to contribute, give something back and to support the server with expecting to get nothing in return, it's a donation.

IMO, no one should be expected to donate to be able to play. If that is the case, they should be expected to pay a fee in order to play.

Its a peeve of mine and completely semantics. Perhaps people feel the two are interchangeable. Or perhaps its not really as big a deal as I make it out to be. I dunno.
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#14

Yeah, I gave 20 bucks, and I feel disgruntled when I don't get to play immediately now that I've done that. Why should 20 other people that haven't donated get to when I can't, whether they're able to or not? Of course I'd like for everyone that wants to be play to be able to but that's just not happening.
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#15

i think we need to ask DF, what does he want, what are his goals
by all means he seems to be trying to make us happy, and if he makes it so you need to pay just to play, hes not gona have that
i mean those who don't pay for reserve slots, if it comes to a point that they can't play without a reserve slot, will just play another server, if the reserve slots ever dominate the server this is gona happen, at the moment the chances of the same person getting kicked because of reserve slot is low, but if half the server is reserved, then your gona start getting less players, is that what you want?

you gota list you priorities, this isn't about what we want, its your server DF?
so...
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#16

Uh, no we don't need to ask df, df made this topic to ask US so he could get our input. That's kind of the entire point of this thread.
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#17

another thing to keep in mind, is that in this entire topic i'm probably the only one who does not have a reserver slot, if DF really wants to know what the majority of the server wants he can't really rely on this group
this is DF's server and not considering his goals here is just being disrespectful
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#18

As a semi-regular player to the server, my opinion on how the whole thing should be handled hinges completely on the definition of 'donation' to DF and how he would like to apply it. While not trying to sound too much like Clinton (definition of 'is'), I think the term donation is misunderstood by a lot of people and may be being used in this case incorrectly.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/donation

do·na·tion

–noun 1. an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift

gift

–noun 1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.


I don't mean to turn to the dictionary to be an ass, just to illustrate my opinion. I think the whole issue is that people are viewing donations as a fee. In return of that fee, they are getting a reserved slot which then entitles them to 'play on demand'. I don't think this is entirely at the fault of the donator, its a very excellent and very generous deal. I don't feel like people are viewing donations as a gift, merely a means to an end.

Not to say that everyone who donated did so purely for the reserved slot or that they are unjustified in believing they way they do. A lot of the issue comes from the intent of the donation.

Is the donation simply to get a reserved slot? Is it simply to say 'hey, I enjoy playing here, here's $5 to help'?

I, personally, don't believe there is much of a middle ground here. I feel people who have donated have done so mostly to get the reserved slot and less because of the 'gift' aspect. Does that apply to everyone? No. But I feel a mass majority are feeling 'cheated' because they 'bought their spot' on the server and they still can't play. I don't feel they are unjustified by that feeling, as the way the current terminology is set it, it leads you to believe if you donate, you can play when ever you want.

http://www.sourceop.com/modules.php?name...=0&thold=0

No where does it state limitations on the number of slots, nor does it state you may not be able to play when ever you want. It does give the impression that if you drop money, you 'own' a spot on the server, when ever you would like to play. I don't think it was intentionally misleading, I just think it became more popular than it was expected to be.

I believe that the link to 'Make a donation' should be changed to 'Buy your slot' or something along those lines. The reserved slot limit should also be increased to the full 32 players. Otherwise, it needs to clearly state that you are making a donation and are not entitled to anything. What you are receiving is a 'hey, thank you, this means something to me' and receive a small perk. Not that is a guarantee to have a slot on the server.

While I understand his point of view, asking our opinion - in my opinion, that determination rests completely with how the donation system is intended to be run.

Given the information I have now, given the fact I haven't spoken to DF directly about it or gone into great lengths about his thoughts on the issue and given my pet peeve about the difference between 'donations' 'fees' and 'tips', I feel like I have to say that people upset about not being able to play on the server after they donated are being unreasonable. It's not to say I don't understand how they feel. I completely understand - but I believe that feeling comes from a misunderstanding of what their donation was supposed to be. A donation is a gift. Pure and simple. It is given and nothing is expected in return.

However, if the intent of the reserved slots system is to bring in money - the terminology needs to be changed. It is no longer a donation. It is a fee. Once that fee is paid, it is then the responsibility of the service provider to provide that service that is paid for. By increasing the reserve limits or even locking the server completely during prime time use - or just locking it completely and giving access to only paying members.

Like I said in a previous post, I believe DF feels like he is in a rock and a hard place. I feel like he feels he has the responsibility to both parties (public and donators) to provide a service to them. To that end, it rests entirely on his shoulders. He needs to make the distinction between donating and reserved slots. I feel like, respectfully, he is trying to 'pass the buck' as it were. I feel like he isn't trying to be the bad guy, but rather make it the communities decision. I empathize with him completely as I feel he is in a very tough choice right now.

In my, personal, opinion - the forums aren't even an adequate place to ask a question like this that would effect the entire user base. It's scope is very limited and it's very easy to see that not everyone has an account here, nor is it clear that everyone in the server even visits this site. Is it justified to say the majority here, in this forum, have the right to create policy on the server? I supposed it could be justified as people here might tend to care more about what happens there .. But what about some one you see all the time, you enjoy playing with that never bothered to come to the site and simply joined to play with people he liked? What if the decision is made to allow 32 slots and they are taken up 90% of the time and he just .. doesn't want to donate. It's ok to tell him he either needs to donate now or bugger off because he didn't know about this post in the forums? What happens if it was some one you really enjoyed playing with and suddenly, they were just 'gone'? Before you donated ('you' as in, anyone who has donated, not a specific individual), could you tell someone if they didn't like it to just find another server?

My intention in posted has never been to alienate, call out or discredit other posters. I have only posted a handful of things and didn't post anything of significance for a little bit after I joined because I really didn't have much to say.

The only reason I feel like I have a lot to say about things like this is I've been in situations similar to this. Not to a T, no situation is ever exactly like any other - but I guarantee you, what ever decision DF makes on this subject has the chance of altering his sever to a great degree. It may be for the best, it may be for the worse. I can not see into the future, I can not tell anyone what the correct course of action is. I can only express, what I feel, is a non-bias view point.

I have though several times of donating. I have even thought of doing it just so I could get my own slot. Again, a 'life time' slot that was being offered at the price is was is ... very very generous. My choice in not doing so is not limited by my monetary situation. My reasons for not doing so are my own, as everyone's reasons for doing or not doing so are their own. I can only offer my opinion as a 'public' player who has been a 'reserved slot' player, a 'server admin' player and a 'community leader' player. I have experienced many things in the years I've been involved in online gaming and their communities. I feel that experience gives me a non-biased view upon several 'growing pains' a community feels, as I have been through several and I feel like this one is going through one as well.

Is it wrong for DF to ask us our opinion on things? No. But what I've said is my opinion. In my opinion - its how the intent of the reserve slots is set up - and as such, his choice.

Perhaps I see it too much as a community and not just as a server people play on? It just happens to feel like a community to me.

Again, I'm sorry about the length.
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#19

I really think that it cant be both ways really just tag or log the donators and give them preference over the non donators. Doing it this way still allows for "fresh meat" to play but will not interfere with the regulars who donate. I do understand about people who like to play but can not donate, but look at it from a donars perspective, donating and not being able to play sucks too. But at least the donors are providing with DF's admin skills a place to play for themselves and others. I do realize that "the others" are an intigral part of the playability that makes the servers a good place to play.

Asai

3 rules to live by;
1)Question everything.
2)Believe nothing.
3)For the truth follow the money.
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#20

i looking at this as more as how he wants to use it, he has previously stated that he wants the servers to pay for themselves, and if he gets extra to by new servers, he recently got new servers and is already pulling in 200% of what he needs to maintain them, his goal has been met and far over that of what he seems to be aiming for
just from this i think that limiting the number of reserve slots he allows to be given out a month would fix all his problems and still allow him to sustain the servers
the question now is how far does he want to go with this, increasing the reserve slot count is leading to what i believe to be an undesirable conclusion where only those who donate actually get to play, kaylee's idea of 32 is way over the bounds to an almost insane degree, this would mean during peak times only those who pay actually get to play, completely alienating everyone else in the process, THIS IS BAD!!!, i doubt this is what DF wants but unless he tells us other wise we DON'T KNOW, thats why i want to hear his reasoning first

also asai you assume those who donate are all new to the servers, but truth is i been here long before any of you and i can't donate, stop assuming ignorant things
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