Half-Duplex` & Ralconn gagged issue

[Half-Duplex]

As soon as you become irritating or start annoying people, it's no longer OK. I tell admins to just use their best judgment. I'm sure Kaylee used hers appropriately.

These types of annoyances tend to discourage people from playing and are not conducive to the fun atmosphere I like to maintain on the servers.

Irritating to who? To the admin personally, or to everyone in general? I'm no idiot, I know there are people who don't like me because they think, that I think I know it all. But I'm also certain there are many who embrace what I say since it usually results in the win. You can read the chat logs if you'd like. Many of the people that were witnesses to this incident were completely clueless as to what was going on.

What I don't understand is why its OK for Kaylee to safely assume that because she feels something is annoying to her - then it is therefore annoying to the entire server, and everyone who is playing. I don't understand how you can't see that she used her administrative privileges to solve a personal problem, and not a server problem.

Because lets face it - I play on this server every day. I act the same way...don't you think someone would have posted by now if I was a really pestering the server. If you were to ask most players, you'd find that they either would say, "Yeah he's pretty cool" or "No I don't like him...I just have him muted"

Much like what Kaylee's good friend Nummy has done.

3. And why did Ralconn get gagged for simply defending me?

Because he was only making the situation worse.

Making the situation worse how? Clearly something was out of hand here. And having Kaylee gag me under false acquisitions was making the situation worse in itself. Her explanations were unclear and not precise. I am not the only one who thinks this.

Micas, you and Tips have been on thin ice for ages. It was no surprise you two would jump on the bandwagon when Duplex started his thing. I try to keep a fair and open mind towards you two as best I can but honestly I don't know if your complaints or word mean much anymore considering your history around here.

This isn't some sort of popularity contest I'm trying to win. This isn't some sort of "Hate Kaylee" fan club. Its two separate occasions where her reasoning has been thrown into question. What you have to accept is the fact that not everyone is going to get along with one another. People will have their disagreements. And what Kaylee may call annoying, I call something else. The thing is, this isn't an issue with me disturbing the server. Its an issue with Kaylee just being annoyed with me personally and disliking my approach to having a good time by actively engaging over the microphone. Perhaps instead of assuming that everyone has a problem with me over the mic, maybe next time she can hold a vote in game. I can understand if she doesn't want to listen to me, but that doesn't mean the whole server doesn't want to listen to me either. In fact, when I came back to play later that evening, she was the only one having a problem with me over the microphone. Not even Kia (who was either ignoring me or just not paying attention the chat) had said anything until Kaylee had mentioned his name stating that she'll leave it in his hands.

Makes no sense to me.

I heard you cursing and insulting people over the mic that night after I warned you (and this was after a warning and a gag earlier in the day). Kia has my back on this, he wanted to gag you both too. (Just to be clear, I gagged him for the cursing/insulting then he rejoined to complain about it in chat before I gagged him for the third time.)

Kia was completely oblivious as to what was going on until a good half of it was already over. He started to actively engage into the matter at hand right about when you gagged me the second time.

The fact of the matter is, I wasn't cursing after you warned me in the chat. And even when I was cursing earlier, I wasn't calling anyone names. My swearing does not extend anywhere further than those who offend me (by name slander and what have you), and those who kill me on the other team (who can't hear me anyway, unless of course, Admins). And even in that case, its nothing more than, "This $^$@$ killed me again. we need to get that #@$%@$." And if that is so wrong, then I will refrain from using such language. So as long as it is followed by everyone else on the server as well. Ralconn can vouch for me on that. And as he stated above earlier,

He merely said something along the lines of "How come we don't have A?"...

This was after I received my first warning of the night, Kaylee. You even admitted in the chat that you possibly misheard me and could have made a mistake (This should be in the chat logs as well). And just on a side note: Is cursing, name calling, etc, prohibited on the server? If so - there are many times where I will join the server, and not be connected for more than 5 minutes before someone starts to verbally attack me, and there is never any action taken.

Kaylee...why didn't you gag the players who continued to provoke me after I had been gagged? I saw you give them warnings...but they went overboard clear after you gave them a shake of the finger and nothing was done in my defense.

Needless to say, my feathers were flustered. And yes I did continue to press the issue, even though you had requested that I discontinue my rant. However, when all was aside - and when I was willing to carry on - I wanted to make one clarification, "Where is the line drawn". When you could not answer that question - you took it as if I was still trying to push the issue and cause trouble. When really I just wanted to clarify to prevent it from happening again - another thing Kaylee was unclear on. And yet again, you can check the logs for this. I asked multiple times, "Where is the line drawn".

But alas, instead of explaining that, you gagged me, and Ralconn yet again. And encouraged us to take it to the forums..

Fine, whatever, here we are at the forums. But this won't accomplish anything. It appears that Drunken has already sided with Kaylee on this. Naturally, you will be biased in her favor. This is expected of you as the server owner. And I don't blame you for that. You chose your admins as you saw fit and you don't want to believe that perhaps maybe one of your admins may have a flaw. I know how this from experience, having been admin of various servers in the past.

I guess the only thing I can say really is that from now on when Kaylee is in game...I will record to demo from the moment I join the server. So in case this dispute ever rises again - and not just between her and I, but for anyone on the server who runs into this. Because as you know, I am a regular on the server, I play daily. I donate as well because I want this server to be the best it can be. It honestly is number 1 on my list for TF2 and I can safely say that I don't play on any other server besides this.

I just hope you will take step back at look at it from an outside perspective rather than siding with your admins so quickly. That way you can determine how "out of line" I am going if this situation arises again. Clearly there are people who are in favor of my defense, and then there's Kaylee...but only you can make the ultimate decision.

And hopefully this post won't be a waste of my time and go in vain...maybe you will read it through and give it heavy thought. And if not...oh well I tried.

[OmegaZero_Alpha]

I think the only thing done wrong here was Kaylee acting based off of here personal opinion. If I were in that situation I would have created a vote on weather or not to gag him and his friend. 99% of what I do is in the form of a vote so people can decide how they want their favorite server run. (its funny what people will do just because an admin creates a vote. I made a fake vote entitled "Voteban player @all" and got a 74% vote.)

The best servers are run by the players, not the administrators.

[Kaylee]

Omegazero, FYI, we had a number of people complaining in chat and I had another 4 PMs in steam friends asking me to gag them. The only people saying otherwise were Duplex, his IRL friend Ralconn, and Tips and Micas who always take every chance they get to harass me. Also:

I tell admins to just use their best judgement.

At the end of the day I try to do the same thing on sourcep servers as I do for the forum I moderate: whatever the admin would do if he was there.

[-LMA-]

The best servers are run by the players, not the administrators.

Agreed.

It truly takes the community of the server to get the rep that it deserves.

I was there that night when this went down, i didn't hear it all but do remember how ralconn was trying to understand why Kaylee did what she did and telling people to not talk on the mic anymore because Kaylee is on. I remember Kaylee explaining to me that Half-Duplex called Nummy a bitch earlier that night. That's when i said "That's fucked up, now i understand" but if this statement is not true then i see it as a ploy to only get Duplex off the server. I have seen a couple members get into an argument with Duplex more than others because of the way that he talks, but he's not annoying at all, he does in fact try to get the team to win, i can name other names of people that are simply annoying and i can assure everyone Duplex is not one of them.

I hope if anything, if this happens again that there is a vote rather than a straight gag.

[nerverot]

The best servers are run by the players, not the administrators.

I think the reason the sourceop servers are so popular is A) because they've been around B) because they have a good over-all config C) because they have attentive admins.

I don't come to sourceop to let screwy players who don't know when to STFU push players around and I'm certainly glad that the admins don't let them do it to them.

Kaylee, I'm a 2fort player, but I appreciate your work as much as I appreciate DF, SNAKE and Naqs.

[Half-Duplex]

...we had a number of people complaining in chat and I had another 4 PMs in steam friends asking me to gag them. The only people saying otherwise were Duplex, his IRL friend Ralconn, and Tips and Micas who always take every chance they get to harass me....

Kaylee you're friends who asked you to gag me probably consists of your circle of friends that you have on the server. I.E Nummy and a few others. So of course they will side with you...those were probably the 4 from your friends list.

On the other hand. I had 4 or 5 people who weren't on my friends list, who witnessed the whole thing message me (because I was couldn't speak...I was gagged) stating that you were in the wrong. I still have people requesting me on friends today just to comment on this issue. They too disagree with your actions.

Kaylee, I'm glad you let your 4 friends on your steam friends influence you to make a decision that affects the entire server. I'm sure if I was admin on a server, my friends would side with me too...

...If I were in that situation I would have created a vote on weather or not to gag him and his friend.

This would have been the perfect way to this handle situation. Four friends on a 32 man server have a problem with someone on the mic, someone they can easily mute, but they refuse to. Yet they have the power to dictate who can and can't talk based on their liking toward that individual. When the remaining 25 ( -3 for Kaylee, Ralcon, and msyself.) aren't even asked for an opinion. I wonder what that remaining 25 would have voted...

Hrm..best jugdment over simple logic? Really?

[Kaylee]

LMA, I don't know how close attention you were paying, but in both Kia's judgment and my own Duplex was repeating his "I don't understand line" despite the fact I told him exactly what he can and can't do 3 times. After I refused to continue repeating myself and told him to drop it he began claiming Kaylee won't let him talk on the mic or get gagged knowing I wasn't refuting the claim because I wanted to end the argument. It was a victimization ploy, in other words.

Again Duplex I'm sorry but it was my own judgment that you were unreasonably disruptive to the server and the people asking me to gag you only reinforced that opinion. There usually is two sides with this sort of thing, though. (Though you should note most every Sourceop regular is on my friends list; it wasn't just that I happened to have four friends on the server at the time. That was just how many PMed me about it.)

[Drunken F00l]

I prefer not to make votes for these sorts of things. They only add to the disruption the players are causing.

[OmegaZero_Alpha]

you are treating commotion like it is a bad thing.

People have messaged me thanking me for putting the power to ban "those doucebags" in their hands, and they remember our servers for it. They love to see a moron destroyed, and to most it makes up for the disruption caused by making them feel good for seeing them get whats coming to them.

[Half-Duplex]

I just still don't understand why you couldn't ask the rest of the server for an opinion. It just makes it seem like to me you weren't really concerned for the rest of the server's interest. You and I weren't on the same team. I wasn't speaking to anyone directly, never specified any names. Maybe you were just having a bad day? It is safe to say that for every one person that PM'ed you, there was one who PM'ed me. But I guess because you're admin and I'm not, you'll get the final say.

No worries though Kaylee. As I've stated in my previous post, I'm a regular on the server. And I'm the same way over the microphone, you can ask any regular that. And I'll continue to play as I normally do. I'll do my best to abide by the rules, follow all the guidelines and what not. But I'll also have demos recording to prove myself. Otherwise DF, or anyone for that matter has no reason to believe me...I'm just a player - not an admin.