[jerclay]

Apparently, shooting through the window of the 2fort battlements is a bannable offense, at least from admins who are on the opposite team*. Since when? And where is the line between "exploit" and "he annoys me" drawn? Is sticky trapping the grate no longer allowed, since stickies explode through it?

*this was all happening while a demoman on the other team was doing the exact same thing, which is still playing and still doing it as I was banned.

[Hell-met]

drunkenfool has a strict policy on people who kill through setup gates.

this falls in the same category in my book.

on a side-note, grate-camping is intended and easily countered.

shooting through non-solid props isn't.

[jerclay]

So hold on, it's because the window is too small? You say it's easily countered; so is hitting me. I'm on the battlements, not in some safe area. Sure can't if you're hiding in the base as you were, but I get killed plenty by scouts jumping over, soldiers, spies, etc.

Am I wrong here? Hell-met has a personal issue with me ever since I said he relied on random crits months ago and he banned me (if you've ever been on the instaspawn 2fort server, you'd know my insults are timid compared to the normal mudslinging there), so I could say 2 + 2 = 4 and he'd say I was wrong. As I stated, he didn't ban the person on his team doing the exact same thing well before I was. But I'm curious to hear from the other players: is shooting through windows while standing on the battlements an issue?

Heck, if that is, what about shooting through the window on the BLU side? What about shooting over the wall? I'm about as safe there, too. Is it illegal to shoot through the slats of the bridge roof? Those holes are smaller than the holes in the BLU battlements.

[Hell-met]

First, you're pretty much my first ban. I have no idea what the random crit thing you are talking about is.

Second, it's a map exploit. It is unintended. Blu side has no such window, it's clearly a cosmetic overlooked by valve, exactly like the holes in the blue base rooftops. So yes, if someone is abusing these, they will be punished aswell.

Third, I thought about this for a very long time. If this had been a personal issue, I would have done it long ago since I have seen you do it for a very long time.

Fourth, the demoman on my team was shooting from behind the sniper sheet wall. This is fine.

And finally, be glad it's only a day. I accidently forgot a zero.

[jerclay]

First of all, I'm incorrect in stating ban - I was simply kicked, without warning (so no vote), and you were the only admin on.

Second, BLU side's equivalent is a bigger hole:

http://i.silvercircle.net/win2a.jpg

How is that possibly unintended? It's a window. Are you stating they meant to make it where objects couldn't go through the window, or slats in the BLU base?

Third, the fact you thought about this a very long time and saw me doing it before, and then banned me without warning kinda insinuates it was a personal issue. You seeing it for a very long time = it's ok by you (or at least not bannable).

Fourth, no, he was originally shooting from here:

http://i.silvercircle.net/win3.jpg

And you killed someone *right there* while he was doing it.

And finally, the issue isn't simply being banned a day. The issue is you taking my actions from ok to bannable without warning. What else do I do, that I've been doing for months and seen by you in the past, that's going to be ban-worthy by you tomorrow? By stating the window and slats are an exploit, even though you're in an unsafe position (unlike shooting through setup grates), that's a HUGE slippery slope. It's something done literally all the time, not just by me. If it's now a bannable offense after months (years?)... Wow.

[Hell-met]

nah, the whole "but I wasn't warned!!" doesn't work with me.

You actively know you piss people off even without exploiting and enjoy spouting comebacks on every opportunity.

I can change the ban reason to "General douchebaggery" if you want.

[jerclay]

I'm not using a "but I wasn't warned" as a plea for leniency. I'm using it to show it's personal. Seriously, for something you've seen done for months without issue, you were going to ban me for 10 days without warning (edit: your first ban ever) and that's NOT personal? And because I purposefully piss people off? Do you not play instaspawn 2fort at all?

Fine, is there any admins other than Hell-met that is going to be soul-wounded by my actions and/or consider my battlement sticky strategies 10-day-ban-worthy? Or do I just need to avoid a single admin and his insistence it isn't personal?

[Hell-met]

You exploited a mapping flaw to your advantage.

As for the reason behind the "delay", it simply because I took the time to inform myself and ask others if it really should be punishable.

Hell, ibby agrees, and considering skyrider punishes targe-turners, I'm sure he would have aswell.

There is nothing else to be said or done. Next time will be 10 days. Anyone reading this thread should consider themselves warned aswell.

[Adder]

Where was he shooting from? I don't spend enough time on stalefort to know all the tricks. (NOT THAT I'M GOING TO DO IT, JUST CURIOUS)

[ibby]

It's not hellmet's first ban.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure I've warned you before. If not for this, then for harassing people and being a douche, trying to get a rise out of people by killing them and insulting/taunting them. I've been meaning to ban you for douchebaggery myself, but I guess Hellmet beat me to it.