Super Moderator
This is the part I can never understand when talking to folks with a staunch ID/Creationism belief. Why can't it make sense that their God is so awesome he made everything everything billions of years ago including the laws which govern everything, and that those laws ended up with us here on this tiny rock like some giant cosmic rube goldberg machine?Originally Posted by glouch
Senior Member
As a deist, this is actually what I believe. I always thought it would be contradictory of an omnipotent being to have created a vast universe with with a set of almost infinitely complex characteristics that act simply as a balancing act just to break every rule he set forth to create life on an immeasurably small percentage of it.This is the part I can never understand when talking to folks with a staunch ID/Creationism belief. Why can't it make sense that their God is so awesome he made everything everything billions of years ago including the laws which govern everything, and that those laws ended up with us here on this tiny rock like some giant cosmic rube goldberg machine?
/sarcasm
Member
It was Galileo who said, "I cannot believe that the God who gave us a brain would not let us use it to reason." Or something like that. Well spoken.
Peeps, move past the evolution/creation debacle. Atheists need to find some other ammo rather flogging that dead horse all the time.
Banned
well, that dead horse is actually the whole real difference between 'm. atheists think they are alive due some random luck. Theists believe some deity created man, earth, sun, milky-way, universe etc. The deity created all that, and is going to judge us for all our actions, thoughts and whatever from moment from conception to death, and then its not over, we are to await judgment after death, and if deemed "ok" we are to worship him for eternity... seems pretty fucked to me. Then again there are ppl telling exactly what this deity has in store for them, claim to know exactly what it wants from us, but cannot tell "how" they know. Seems a very straightforward way of gaining power over ppl, and sadly, it works. So, when the theists get to their senses, they are no longer theists, till then they are too blind to see any form of real truth. and that ends up with very coloured "scientists" that try to explain everything away by that their deity has steered or created it.It was Galileo who said, "I cannot believe that the God who gave us a brain would not let us use it to reason." Or something like that. Well spoken.
Peeps, move past the evolution/creation debacle. Atheists need to find some other ammo rather flogging that dead horse all the time.
Now, for the "theorem" of the evolution being "steered" that would mean that the deity is actively taking part in anything that happens... that includes people's nature etc. But it also means that that still happens to this day, including on ppl. Any "judgment" on that would mean that ppl where steered into it and then get some judgment of which they where just victim to? Its just plain dictatorship then.
Apply Occam's razor on it.
Dedicated Member
That isn't what Christians believe, just fyi.
Dedicated Member
I believe in a materialist view of the universe, although materialism usually implies determinism, which means that there's no such thing as free will. But I'm comforted by the fact that illusion of "free will" will always remain
Moderator
yeah datastorm you're pretty wrong.
The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State.
Banned
I did not say its what they believe... its the implications of any form of the creation theorem.
Moderator
you'd have been fine if you stopped after this sentence:Theists believe some deity created man, earth, sun, milky-way, universe etc.
The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State.
Senior Member
Yes. The simplest solution is usually the right one.
Let's apply that to the most complex question known to man, where none of the solutions even resemble simplicity?
/sarcasm
Reply With Quote