Possible wrong infraction

[Antosheek]

So, I'm writin it in there to get an answer

This landed in my notifications today: 3 days ago

Dear Antosheek,

You have received an infraction at SourceOP Forums.

Reason: Invalid Reputation
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read the rules
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This infraction is worth 10 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.sourceop.com/showthread.php?p=1650422
I sold him 7 TF2 Keys for 9,80€ (1,40 € ea) without fees through PayPal, and he went first.
Trade link: http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/1...-1-90-(paypal)

I searched what I could, but something is still not clear to me:

a) what was invalid on the post? Everything I think should be there there was, when I compared it to other right reps I gave, they were the same. Why did it happen about 20 days after I posted it? *SourceBOT* sent it, which is probably a bot,so it might do a mistake?

b) why is there no more *users sourceop forum rep page* under peoples' profiles as it used to? How do you check reputation quickly, other than searching by user's created topics?

Thanks for answer(s)

[Butane]

AgentG

Join Date
Mar 14, 2012
Last Online
Aug 22, 2012

[Antosheek]

I stil don't understand it. I did a trade with him, this was his rep thread, he wasn't banned on this forum, and the trade went correct. Wasn't tagged anywhere, he added me for my trade topic, we traded, asked to exchange rep and I wrote it, so whats wrong?

I'm a serious trader, who would never do anything shady (not to mention I got scammed for about 100 keys so I'm checking people as much as I can), but I still don't see why this rep would be wrong?

[BlackAdder]

Did you actually read and understand the rules of this website?

-Rep left here should be limited to transactions that took place on SOP and not from other sites.

Explain us how on earth the forum account you repped was able to view your trade topic if he did not log in to SOP since Aug 22, 2012 and trade section is available for logged users only...

The answer is: That forum account was not used to view your trade topic. Period.

Do you need any futher explanation?

[Antosheek]

Thanks BlackAdder, now I finally know what is the issue and can work on dealing with it


I don't sell anywhere outside these forums (dont offer to sell for money anywhere outside of that one topic here; it's very risky to trade at all, but someone without account here? no thanks), but guess you can't really confirm it as I can't prove it (how can you prove you didn't do something?), and well, I don't know how he found it out.

He just added me, asked if I sell keys, I asked his rep link, checked if he's not banned, we did the trades, asked to leave rep, I did, hoped he would do. I don't sell anywhere outside this page, so he had to either visit it (friend acc?) OR be told by a friend (which could happen too).

I suggest adding "check if the user you leave reputation for has logged in their account lately" in the rules because how he can get access to sourceop topics or not is not something I could think about before.

I honestly swear I don't sell anywhere outside this, thus I didn't break any rules which I did read carefully and thus humbly request to remove the infraction. I personally did not violate the rules anyhow and would like not to be punished for something I didn't do

[Butane]

from the FAQ mentioned in the rule above:
http://forums.sourceop.com/faq.php?f...hy_account_rep

Why cant I leave rep for trading with a users alternate account?

When you leave rep, you are giving a specific user account your vouch that other steam users use to judge the risk of dealing with that user. Not leaving rep for the correct account means that other traders cannot make an accurate risk assessment. Not only do we get asked often about the "alts and rep" policy but it also has been abused so we are making this very clear that it is no longer allowed.

If you wish to receive reputation for trades on SourceOP, the trades need to be done using your steam account linked to your forums account and NOT AN ALTERNATE STEAM ACCOUNT. This also means don't bother listing "trading" alts or say the items are on a different account. If you want to trade your items on alts, trade them to the steam account linked to your forums account before listing them for trade.

for the record, the wording sucks because skyrider is not the strongest English speaker/writer.

[Butane]

-Do not leave reputation comments for trades done with accounts other than ones that are Steam-linked to the forums and displayed in the first post of a reputation thread. See the FAQ for more info.

Ref http://forums.sourceop.com/misc.php?...rules&cfrset=3

[Butane]

I also partly blame skyrider for letting an old rep thread in the rep section and not moving it to the rep archive.

Back on topic, I think I have a pretty good idea of how it happened, more importantly, now that it has, what type of resolution are you seeking?

[Antosheek]

The rep wasn't left on an alt account - this account added me http://steamcommunity.com/id/SillyG/ (connected with sourceop forum user "agentg", currently banned on this sate). I kept him added for possible future trades back then (as I mostly do with people if trade goes well and they ask me to). I can provide proof for the trade happening with this acc., see below

I might remove him now because he is banned here (I don't know the reason, but he loses part of his trustworthiness anyway) but we need to sort this problem here first

Try to look on this issue from my (normal user's) point of view:
I was selling some keys, only through soucreop forum topic I created. A guy adds me to buy keys - so I expect he came to the topic on this site, because there is no other way he could get to the topic. I ask him for his sourceop page - and he provides it. He got some rep here which means he did some trades before, so that's corrrect. I check oter ifno (steamrep-clean, tf2 hours played, games owned, etc.) -> all shows it's not a new account or scammer, so lets trade. He goes first, everything goes well (transaction happens, I just found it both in paypal and steam trade history, 60 pages back :-/ can provide if wanted) so let's add the reps here since everything went ok. I send it (and that's the one reason that leads to why I have already over 3 hours on fixing this infractions issue), he didn't (that happens, from about 15 trades I did only about 1/3 repped me) then goodbye.

About 2 months after I post it I get the PM that it gets declined, I got infraction for it, and thus, here I am.

So: I expected he came from here, because I don't sell anywhere else - (according to you, he didn't). So how he did? Asked a friend?
I Don't know about any other option how he could find out I sell keys.
Why I thought he came from here?
a) I don't sell anywhere else
b) He provided steamrep topic link -> his steamrep topic was valid; so I added another +rep for a valid trade that happened.

How to prevent hese issues in future?

What to do on my side:
I still don't think I did anything wrong, to check account activity of the trader is not a rule.
I will do it from now anyway, to be "sure" they come from here.

How to fix this on your (admin's) side:
a) Put "make sure the other trader with his account connected to this forum has looked to the trade selling topic via his logged account" in the rules before sending a rep.
Does it look stupid? Yes. But that's what bot gave me infractioin for.
b) lock old rep topics (autolock 1 year? possible user unlock when becoming active again / on demand (more work for admins) OR making a new one (old rep isn't much valid anyway, but it adds a small bit to creditibility). If he didn't have the rep topic here, I wouldn't add a reputation.

Also in this case - I'd like to have my current infraction I got for this removed. It would expire next month, but It would count toward the total infraction-limit before you get banned (1 of 30 I believe?) and it feels injust towards me. (I'm morally very firm and would never do anything "evil" and I'm also studying law school, so injustice is osmething I hate )

[Butane]

You were given an infraction for repping an account that has not logged in for 2-3 years and was not steam linked to the forums. You are aware of that yes?

-Do not leave reputation comments for trades done with accounts other than ones that are Steam-linked to the forums and displayed in the first post of a reputation thread. See the FAQ for more info.

I have no clue how the thread was allowed in the regular rep section, its a holdover thread from the old forums we once had but should have been filtered/moved. It does not however excuse you for repping him.

I still don't think I did anything wrong, to check account activity of the trader is not a rule.

Actually it is, http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/125535-Attention!