BBQ'em for Admin...

[MikeV]

If you're trying to rustle my jimmies, you're not making yourself look too intelligent in the process.

...Says the guy who started the name-calling in the first place. Stop getting so damn defensive and stay on topic.

[WombRaider]

so you're still arguing that we give admin to a guy that wanted to kick another guy for being bad, and has done the same thing in the past?

admins dont have a magical "populate the server" button in their arsenal. your server wont see another admin, especially a nominated "regular," due to the simple fact that you actually DON'T need one.

[ocean6]

I saw the other guy reference it, but I didn't see where BBQ posted that. Never seen it done, either.

You're missing the point, entirely, if that's literally what you're getting out of this thread. Not even sure if serious, lol.

The players who play on the server, the "regulars," have no weight here.... I knew it was going to be a great thread when a valid suggestion gets a sarcastic first post.

[Skeetor]

I fail to understand the problem of givng BBQ a shot at admin. We NEED one.

I have missed playing on the NO BS server regularly. Now I usaly go to Lotus and it is not as fun or skilled. We have been filling the server more often now in the evening. The server may make a comeback if we had a regualr admin on it. Funny how all who oppose this never plays there.

I have known BBQ for years and played with and against him, nerver known him to try and votekick someone unjustly. As long as a player is TRYING to play I see no reson to kick a lower skilled player.

I would like to invite any of you instant guys to come give it a try and see how much more challenging and skillful this server is at night.

Give him a shot FFS.

[TheDopp]

Keeps going in circles - the server is empty more than it's full (by a large margin): http://sourceop.hlstatsx.com/overview/3 .

If the server's full for 3 hours a day (ignoring this past Saturday, and technically in the last two days - Monday and Sunday -it has only been full for one hour, mostly full for 2.5 more) then it doesn't warrant an additional admin. If regulars (and I again echo my disbelief it has regulars with those kind of active hours) do play there, use contact admin if there's an issue. Butane jumps on when he sees it's not empty (similar to what he did with PH) so you even have an admin that plays there.

It doesn't matter if BBQ is the greatest admin ever - won awards for his admin ability in the world admin championships, wrote books on how to admin effectively and currently admins the WOPR server from WarGames. There's nothing to currently admin.

Here''s an example:
The item buy/sell/trade part of SourceOP Forums needs a number of moderators to keep it sane. This is because it's populated, active, and sees a lot of traffic. The HL2 part of the SourceOP forums is empty, never sees any posts outside spam and maybe 3-4 real ones a year and only has ~2 moderators (who moderate all the other parts of the forums). If someone that was a regular in the past in the HL2 subforum came and requested someone new be made a moderator of it, the answer would be 'no'. There's already moderators that have access to it to clean up spam, enforce rules, etc. There's no posts, so no reason to add more moderators. If the HL2 traffic increased (or was obvious it was going to increase) to the Items subforum levels, then sure.

[MikeV]

It doesn't matter if BBQ is the greatest admin ever - won awards for his admin ability in the world admin championships, wrote books on how to admin effectively and currently admins the WOPR server from WarGames. There's nothing to currently admin.

THIS.

Seriously, if these guys were as devoted to actually playing on the server and inviting their friends as they were trying to justify how 1 admin would make the No Mods No BS server turn into the Instant Respawn server, it might actually get halfway full.

I would like to invite any of you instant guys to come give it a try and see how much more challenging and skillful this server is at night

Nah. There's just something about a constantly full server without the boring wait-time and lackluster experience that makes the Instant Respawn server a much better choice. And I don't have to wait till "night" for it to be challenging and skillful.

[Butane]

I joined when they were about 4-5 people on (noobs not regs) and stayed until the server was full about 2 hours ago, no issues while I was on. Ill hop back on after I eat something

[bbq 'em [dBs]]

I would like to say thank you for the increased admin presence - that's really all we were looking for. It seems my mistake was relying on sourceop admins that I was able to get on my friends list to come and help when there were problems and they were online and/or in game. Rquasar has also reported unsuccessfully trying to get help via irc. This usually only happens when there's a server problem after an update or some jackass is using his paid hacks package and starts noclipping and zooming around with the namechanger turned on. I believe drunken responsed the last time this happened and perm-nuked the guy for us.

Clearly, contact admin is the preferred way to go and we will recommend that everyone use that method. I will make a post to that effect on the Drinkin' Buddies blog. I'm not on any power trip and have no need for admin - I already have it on some other servers and it's just more work. If you guys have enough admins - that's fine.

Those who value teamplay and strategy want no mods, not instant. Instant is like an arcade game - everyone plays for themselves, not the team or trying to get the intel. It can be fun, but it's nothing like a serious game on no mods. I always shake my head when people join the no mods server and complain about the "crazy respawn times". We just point them to instant.

I will also speak to the person who is said to have made inappropriate remarks. He tends to troll trollers back, so I expect that's what it was as I have never known him to hold racist views.

In terms of the server policing itself and not having to bother admins, is it possible to get functions like teamkick, votemute, etc. restored? We have had these in the past - has the policy changed?

Also, might it be possible to have bots maintain a minimum number of players on the server? I see that lotus does this and it can help keeping a server populated. Their system puts 12 bots on an empty server and removes a bot every time a real player joins the server.

[Rudonk]

In my eyes (and this is just my opinion, not that of the rest of the admin staff) it's an empty server, and empty servers don't need admins. There's no work to be shared. There's no 'the admins on this server suck, they never respond to issues' because there are no issues. There's nothing an admin can add to make that server not empty (if it was a server with a rotation, sure, they can change maps). If the server was populated, sure, I would personally think maybe regular should be bumped to admin. It just has to get populated for more than 3 hours a day though.

The point I raised in the 'Shut down the servers' thread stands. This is not Valvemaps #1 where a rotation change can breathe new life into it, and not Insta where another admin might help matters. NoMod needs to change to a different game type to become populated (MGE, a CTF rotation, whatever).

I think you're taking too much of a literal approach to what an admin is.

Yea, what you said covers the textbook definition of what an admin's role is, but admins can also be leaders and builders of communities, and that's really what the NoMod server is missing right now: community. The idea that the numbers aren't there and the game type needs to be changed is absolute trash. Your rivals have zero problems filling up servers dedicated to 2fort. The difference is that they make an effort in building up their communities and you guys do not.

That's really what BBQ offers you. Yea, you guys don't need another guy to police your server, but you do need someone to get people in that server. BBQ can do that. Among our group, he's always the one scheduling events and getting lots of people to show up to big games. If this thread isn't evidence enough, BBQ is widely respected, and a lot of people would like to see him succeed in whatever he does. I would imagine that if BBQ were given a vested interest in the server, if you will, a lot of people would work to see that he succeeds, and thus ultimately the server.

But whatever. Truth be told, I really don't care what you guys do. It's not that big of a deal to me and I have no emotional attachment to the server whatsoever. I do have to say, though, that I think it's hilarious that this idea isn't even being entertained... It's an idea that has minimal (if any?) risks and the potential for great rewards.

But hey, that's just my opinion and who am I to speak? You guys clearly know what you're doing here:



Lulz.

[TheDopp]

Agreed, community is needed. Admin powers aren't needed to build that though. On the Valvemaps server, Enforcer {EMC} fills the server almost daily. All the regulars follow him. He doesn't have admin powers though (the argument can be made that he should have them), and not having them doesn't prevent the server from functioning because he knows how to resolve issues within the tools available (votekick, contact admin and knowing admins play on the server regularly, like Butane has begun doing with NoMods).
As you mentioned, other 2Fort servers have no problem getting populated. There are almost 900 2fort servers out there of varying shapes and sizes. A good number are wacky bullcrap (mods, donate for admin power, pinion ads, etc), more are highly regionalized (west coast, east coast, EU, etc). In this pool of 2Fort servers it's difficult to do anything short of spamming old regulars and bugging them to play. If anyone (BBQ, Butane or no) wants to do this, populate the server, and get it populated, cool. That would be awesome. The point is no administrative power is needed to do this. Just a sense of community, which as you said yourself, you don't have (as you don't care).

In any event, trying a new server mode would at least spice things up. Not competing with 900 servers doing the same thing.

tl;dr - Play there, it's a good server (performance-wise). If people do, admins would be needed. If they don't, they aren't. If they aren't, might as well change what the server is so we can have players who need admin'ing (my opinion).