One of the most annoying things in trading.

[dragnwtf]

Sometimes I make an offer that I feel is fair in my own mind yet the recieving end doesn't, and they just throw an insult along the lines of "lowball faggot".

This happened to me yesterday.
I offered a guy 2 ref for his lime magistrates mullet and hes like lol faggot this hat is worth 3.66 ref lolol, then he removed me

BECAUSE SPREADSHEET SAID SO. PERIOD.

it's not about the law of supply and demand - all about the sheet!

/ironic

but the "delete thing" is more annoying to me then everything else. it's actually a TRADE - but ppl always got bad manners and remove u instantly if u dont pay the exact price they want to. 99% are not willing to negotiate. really sad

[nartius]

Sometimes I make an offer that I feel is fair in my own mind yet the recieving end doesn't, and they just throw an insult along the lines of "lowball faggot".

This happened to me yesterday.
I offered a guy 2 ref for his lime magistrates mullet and hes like lol faggot this hat is worth 3.66 ref lolol, then he removed me

BECAUSE SPREADSHEET SAID SO. PERIOD.

it's not about the law of supply and demand - all about the sheet!

/ironic

but the "delete thing" is more annoying to me then everything else. it's actually a TRADE - but ppl always got bad manners and remove u instantly if u dont pay the exact price they want to. 99% are not willing to negotiate. really sad

yup, if you add me, then expect you to pay my price, what is so difficult to put your offer on the trade? (assuming its normal item, not an unusuals )

[Dando_Real_ITA]

BECAUSE SPREADSHEET SAID SO. PERIOD.

it's not about the law of supply and demand - all about the sheet!

/ironic

The only way to follow the rule of supply and demand is by having a central market with dynamic pricing.

There are at least 2 ways to accomplish this ( open to know more ):
First, a central currency has to be chosen.

a) Refs/Keys/Promos are for 1:1 direct trades
b) Credits ( like tf2wh.com - but there is no dynamic pricing there ) are for automated trades.

So:

1) A Bid/Ask market.
If the value is credits, items are hosted on 1 or more bots.
Everyone can see and use the book, and so choose the right price for bid or ask. This is a pure supply/demand pricing.
Currently there is nothing like this, you can go on tf2outpost and tf2tp and get/search offers for an item, but nothing resembles an ordered book where you can view the best bid or ask offer.
However, this is a user-regulated market. Nothing can prevent the spread to grow too big and put the market in stall

2) In a credit system, it's also possible a dynamic pricing based on IN/OUT ( bought/sold ) from the market. The basic concept is:
choose a single item as value conversion. I.e., 1 Key = X credits. This is locked, and everything else will change around this
Now,
if an item is overpriced, there will be "far" more people selling to the market ( for profit ) and less buying ( they want the item, but it's not worth the current value )
If an item is underpriced, there will be "far" more people buying from the market ( they get what they want for cheap ) and less selling ( the item is worth more than credits given )
If an item is correctly priced, there will be "little" difference between buying and selling
The "far" and "little" are relative to the total trades of that item
So, using total IN, total OUT of an item for 1 day, it is possible to revalue the price for the next day with a given weight formula.
It's worth noting that such a system does not impose any kind of "overstock" limit: simply, if too many items are sold to the market, it's price will drop to very low values. With 64 bits value, it can be very low

To compare 1) and 2), I would say:

1) Bid/Ask:
- 100% pure market-driven price
- Sellers: don't get anything up until their item is sold. This means that they can't buy another item until their is sold, and this slows down the market flow.
- Buyers: High spread can stall the buying process

2) Weighted Price:
- It uses an impartial intermediary (the market), if price is incorrect, it takes time (1+ days) to change
- Sellers: they get payed immediately.
- Buyers: users can immediately buy what they want, and keep the market flow high.

This is of course for all normal items
for everything else, i.e. special levels, painted items, unusuals, ultra rare items, and so on, an ( always automated ) an auction system is better suited, ebay stile:
start bid, buyout price, and (optional,hidden) reserve price
still using credits as currency, though: this way, you have only to find a buyer for your currency-scaled ( due to fixed credits/key conversion ) item, and find another seller whose prices is in your willing pay range in credits.

This has far more chances than finding a buyer who also has the item you want plus other things to reach equivalent value, simply because such a buyer belongs to a subset of the "I want your item" and "I have the items you want" ensembles, leading to lesser chances for a successful complete trade.
After all, that's why most accept buds for unusuals

[KGB_Bunny]

lowballing is something I hate people up in arms about. Most of the 'lowballing' I've seen is from basic negotiating tactics.

If you ask somebody what they want to pay they're SUPPOSED to lowball (within reason*) because they expect you to come back with a highball for a counter-offer and generally you'll work something out in the middle of that.

*within reason is generally about +/- 30% of the item's total value.

I've heard is some cultures its frowned on when you don't try and barter and just accept the first offer given. Kinda like that one scene in the Life of brian. Damn, now I have to go watch that scene.

[OmegaZero_Alpha]

Yeah, if there aren't any negotiations at all it just feels like somebody got ripped off.

[kurter]

this: http://www.sourceop.com/modules.php?...topic&t=121061

- also seller just hiding your offer without previous explaining why (can be in the notes, I just hate that kinda rudeness)

- people having firm prices that are obviously significantly higher than the general market price

- people who do not get haggling (as in almost all tf2 trader I've met yet)

[OnceAndFutureKing]

Sometimes I make an offer that I feel is fair in my own mind yet the recieving end doesn't, and they just throw an insult along the lines of "lowball faggot".

This happened to me yesterday.
I offered a guy 2 ref for his lime magistrates mullet and hes like lol faggot this hat is worth 3.66 ref lolol, then he removed me

BECAUSE SPREADSHEET SAID SO. PERIOD.

it's not about the law of supply and demand - all about the sheet!

/ironic

but the "delete thing" is more annoying to me then everything else. it's actually a TRADE - but ppl always got bad manners and remove u instantly if u dont pay the exact price they want to. 99% are not willing to negotiate. really sad

I do this, when I price things I tell people to leave offers on my trade. I do not want to deal with negotiating while I am in game. Usually what happens is someone makes an offer other than my asking price. I go to look up value which take 5-10 minutes since I am doing it between lives. they get impatient and ask if I am there, so I remove them since they decided to interrupt my game and couldn't wait for me to find out the value of their offer. If people would just offer where the trade is posted that could be avoided.

[Raxx]

Sometimes I make an offer that I feel is fair in my own mind yet the recieving end doesn't, and they just throw an insult along the lines of "lowball faggot".

This happened to me yesterday.
I offered a guy 2 ref for his lime magistrates mullet and hes like lol faggot this hat is worth 3.66 ref lolol, then he removed me

Yeah I hate that. All it would take is "can you throw 1.6 on there pal?" But just using every little spot to be a dick probably cause their life sucks.

[oiyatat]

Sometimes I make an offer that I feel is fair in my own mind yet the recieving end doesn't, and they just throw an insult along the lines of "lowball faggot".

This happened to me yesterday.
I offered a guy 2 ref for his lime magistrates mullet and hes like lol faggot this hat is worth 3.66 ref lolol, then he removed me

Yeah I hate that. All it would take is "can you throw 1.6 on there pal?" But just using every little spot to be a dick probably cause their life sucks.

I agre but if it is a major lowball, you deserve to be abused.... That was just overpriced...

[Rahoz]

Sometimes I make an offer that I feel is fair in my own mind yet the recieving end doesn't, and they just throw an insult along the lines of "lowball faggot".

This happened to me yesterday.
I offered a guy 2 ref for his lime magistrates mullet and hes like lol faggot this hat is worth 3.66 ref lolol, then he removed me

BECAUSE SPREADSHEET SAID SO. PERIOD.

it's not about the law of supply and demand - all about the sheet!

/ironic

but the "delete thing" is more annoying to me then everything else. it's actually a TRADE - but ppl always got bad manners and remove u instantly if u dont pay the exact price they want to. 99% are not willing to negotiate. really sad

I do this, when I price things I tell people to leave offers on my trade. I do not want to deal with negotiating while I am in game. Usually what happens is someone makes an offer other than my asking price. I go to look up value which take 5-10 minutes since I am doing it between lives. they get impatient and ask if I am there, so I remove them since they decided to interrupt my game and couldn't wait for me to find out the value of their offer. If people would just offer where the trade is posted that could be avoided.

So, basically, you delete people because they are asking you to hurry up? That's pretty much telling them: "Hey, you are wasting my time, i don't want to talk to you anymore" Pretty much making them not want to deal with you at all, or buy your items.

They added you to offer because it would be faster, and they saw you were in - game, you don't have to remove somebody because they were wasting your precious game time and "Interrupting" you, take the time to look up the price and give them a response, and if you cant, just say "Hey, i'm kind of doing something right now, mabye i'll tell you in a few minutes." Or: "I can't tell you right now, i have to think about it".