best sold/hvy weps on 2fort, 24 players, goal: frag freq.

[Adder]

4. regular rocket launcher is inferior even when youre being healed: once you shot the 4 rockets (IF you have them all reloaded at uber time), you are in exactly the same shoes as with black box (without the health boost)

wat

[Helicobacter]

1. The health bonuses are useless/pointless if you have a medic. The speed bonus with the LL lets you corner snipe players like you can do to sentries with the DH (or heads with a Huntsman). The LL is also a heck of a lot harder for Pyro's to deal with. The health bonus of the BB only makes sense if 1. you're never ever going to be kritz'd, 2. have a backup secondary that isn't useless and 3. have a melee that isn't harmed by the health gains that the black box provides. There can, and will be situations where you don't have a medic and run out of ammo with the BB. Because of the health gains, the equalizer will be weaker than a stock melee (I chose the objector because most players for some reason think it has a wider range than say the shovel, and tend to panic against it).

It is assumed you do not have a medic. I agree that LL is harder to handle against pyros and snipers but not to the degree that makes it worth forgoing +15 hp per hit. For example: Pr(opponent is pyro)*Pr(opponent can deflect)*Pr(opponent didn't deflect 40% faster rocket when he could have deflected it when it would have been slower) +similar expression vs. sniper vs. 15hp gain against every opponent.

2.It provides mini-crits, which help your team get you kills by weakening the players so you can one-rocket kill them. Also, it gives you mini crits, upping the damage quotient. If you're running the original launcher, your fourth rocket is why it makes sense to carry it.

Minicrit is good every one in a while, but it doesn't beat the benefit you get from a shotty or -66% self dmg reduction for RJ'ing.

When Valve balance-tests team-benefitting items, they assume that you will help at least someone else on your team....my question assumes youre working alone.

3. See point 1, but also: if you have a medic pocketing you, you're silly for using it since it makes them useless (maybe as a distraction in your weird scenario, which I suppose is good) and keeps you weak in a fight. And since you didn't specify insta-spawn or not (assuming not) that's 20 seconds of not killing things when you end up dying from thinking low health=good melee=good thing. As someone who melee's often (w+m1 sniper is one of my favorites) I always laugh when an equalizer solly thinks it gives them the advantage until they die from one hit and their medic runs around confused.

Again, its assumed you dont have a medic. Yeah I assume insta spawn. so this supports allin from behind or surprise slap against bad players from the front or running with scout speed to a health pack.

4. Four krockets are better than three. The RL loadout would be with a medic, the LL without, each able to work well if a medic exists/doesn't exist (as the situation demands).

Agreed: RL is best with medic, but im assuming no medic. I claim LL<BB when no medic is helping you (as explained above).

5. For someone that mentioned DPS, and thinks that three rockets are all you need, I don't know why gunboats would even enter your mind. If you're using the BB you don't need damage reduction in your jumps- just shoot something and get your rocket jumped health back, fire your last rocket, pull out a shotgun and finish the job as required.

I lose like 2*50hp (two jumps on average) = 100hp without considering the additional dmg while crossing the bridge (if i dont use gunboats). most enemies can be killed with 2 rockets...this leaves me with -100hp+2*15hp= -70hp....thats too severe. Wtih BB, I'm close to original health.

And I never said Heavy was the best for getting frags as fast as possible. Just the best for getting frags as fast as possible on 2fort.

why would you say that im a coward for using heavy-primary, if you didnt agree it was stronger than melee. you say melee heavies are more courageous....only somebody who would say that melee puts you in a worse position would claim something like that...

also are you sure you are defending warrior's spirit and not FoS? Your demo-sticky boost comment from above makes it appear so.

[beefntators]

TLDR: OP sucks at TF2

[TheDopp]

why would you say that im a coward for using heavy-primary, if you didnt agree it was stronger than melee. you say melee heavies are more courageous....only somebody who would say that melee puts you in a worse position would claim something like that...

also are you sure you are defending warrior's spirit and not FoS? Your demo-sticky boost comment from above makes it appear so.

Not saying you're a coward. Melee heavy is just the only real way to play 2Fort. It's science.

And no, the FoS are silly. Warriors spirit, for the cost of ~7% of your starting health does 20% more damage per hit; which with the crit equation means more crits, more often; which means more kills. Sticky demo's running backwards tend to try to just left click/right click as fast as possible, lending you the opportunity to just jump on one sticky, then fly right at them for minimal damage.
I also don't advocate the use of the steak, because while you can move a bit faster and do mini-crits, you also get mini-crited back. But it's a viable option if you're willing to die more with less kills, and don't have confidence that you'll land a lot of punches you throw.

[Snarf]

I have barely skimmed this, but is this guy really saying the buff banner isn't as good as a shotgun? Despite the fact that it used to be(And probably still is) regularly banned in comp play?

[SasQ]

hey useless nooblets using blackbox like a f2p fa44got , take this rofl and this lol from me :

rofl

LoL

grow some skills.

let the rage beggin' and now lets see who is the first internet warrior to ask u mad.

:'''D

black box...


:""""DDDD

[Helicobacter]

TLDR: OP sucks at TF2

my frag:death is always at least 2...most often 3...and in a few sessions where im in good shape its 10...

tf2 has such a weak average skill base....they would get crushed in quake duels

1v1?

[Adder]

Watch out this guy can get a 3.0 KDR on 2fort.

[TheDopp]

TLDR: OP sucks at TF2

my frag:death is always at least 2...most often 3...and in a few sessions where im in good shape its 10...

tf2 has such a weak average skill base....they would get crushed in quake duels

1v1?

TF2 isn't a DM game though. Too often people are concerned about their KDR instead of the objective. Which is why this whole question of what's the best way to rack up frags on 2Fort is silly.



Also this is the only warning I'm giving out. Read and respect the first rule of the forum (which, since someone moved the thread isn't conveniently located in a thread). Respect everyone here. Just because the OP likes the BB (it's not a bad weapon, just not for what he's wanting), doesn't mean you can act like an xbox live star.

[Helicobacter]

why do so many people say n00bs use BB? if it rewards you only if you hit a lot....the other weps dont reward you for hits...so if your acc is >80%...meaning youre a skilled aimer...why would ppl say bb users are bad?