[Zibber]

No wonder people think you're an asshole Teeird. You could have made your point without being a dick.

Teeird is a big dick cuz he pointed out the flaws in my idea, Whatever, this is my last post. I'm glad Valve would never do such a thing. They like money, we like money. Let's move on.

no no. You're just a big asshole in general

[hamie96]

No wonder people think you're an asshole Teeird. You could have made your point without being a dick.

Teeird is a big dick cuz he pointed out the flaws in my idea, Whatever, this is my last post. I'm glad Valve would never do such a thing. They like money, we like money. Let's move on.

I HATE money. It brings out the evil in people.

[Hamstar]

I haven't been paying much attention to this thread since planting the seed initially, but having come back into it, I have the following things to say:

1. SourceOP admins, please stop dancing around this wispy definition of what is and what is not sharking. It's not the definition of the word that matters, it's the principle of it. Teeird and the others against whom solid evidence has been accumulated should be banned for their shitty, greedy, deceptive behavior. Please note that I am not against profit; I have made a great deal of profit since my first hat. What I despise, what makes me want to quit all this is the absence of integrity and decency in so many individuals. Make an example of the ones we already know are jackasses. It can't do any harm, even if others fail to recognize that these actions have consequences. You're still taking these people out of the birthplace of TF2 trading, which is a benefit to all of us.

2. A "reverse trade" button would be an absolute and utter failure, and Valve has not the time nor interest to start policing what boils down to "bad trades." I'm 100% sure they already decline dozens if not hundreds of support tickets per day for reasons like this. It's not something they willfully care about, which you can understand if you examine it from their perspective. The responsibility to make the community better is on our shoulders; we, the community admins, need to take measures to discourage dishonest and malicious behavior. We can't eradicate it, because, well... let's face it, people are going to be shitheads no matter what we do, but we can at least put a significant dent in it.

3. On the topic of whether this hat was sharked or not? Of course it was. The fact that you're browsing this forum and posting in this thread means you know this hat has an intrinsic value well above three earbuds. Sluggy knew that when he traded for it. The only person who did not know that is the original owner. You can't expect every single person to be proactive about researching values, either. Hell, I'd wager that a significant portion of the TF2 community at large doesn't even realize their stuff is "worth" real money. So when someone comes to them saying, "I'll give you $25 or a steam game for that hat!" a lot of people will say, "Golly, that sounds like a great deal! That key cost me $2.50!" The fact of the matter is, they would almost always choose the larger cash sum of what their hat is actually worth, if given that information upon unboxing.

4. Fuck you, Teeird.

[Butane]

As for sharks on these forums, we have and continue to discuss the issue and I'm going to leave it at that. Any official policy change will come form Pete or Me.

[TheDopp]

2. A "reverse trade" button would be an absolute and utter failure

I'd love to see what post you guys are reading that there's a magic button, or instant undo of all trades ever on a whim. I suggested an opportunity to reverse trades - a possible course of action that traders can go through, meeting certain strict requirements (which will exclude 90% of traders because none of them seem to have the power to read, rules or otherwise).
Given a formal process, with strict guidelines (e.g. proof something nefarious happened), with a team dedicated to security/trading policing, a trader could have an opportunity for it to be overturned. This can be further shored up by the team not acting independent of the community which is not Valve's usual thing. They can engage with SR, or some of the reputable members of the community for consulting.
The true biggest stumbling block is hiring multi language support. With Russia and LatAm being huge markets, it'd be in their interest to not ignore them.

[milz187]

With FTP I'll imagine any Shark / Scammer crackdown team will be pretty hard to manage. The rules are simple and in place.

- If you've been highjacked you get your shit back

- If you did a trade it's unfortunate but sorry we can't help you

Unless they change their TOS I will think there's legal grounds around reversing any trades in this market, fact is to the letter of the law all these items have no value.. if someone was to trade a Burning TC for a crate valve have no legal right to reverse that trade.

If Valve cared best thing they can do imo is educate the unboxer before they get sharked rather than worry about catching / punishing the Shark. eg. The crate says something of the lines of "there is a 1% chance your going to unbox something rare" but if you were to unbox an unusual you don't get any indication that it's that 1%..... a noob could have 1 key / 1 crate not read or remember the contents of the crate get an unusual and think it's normal, but if they had fireworks going off in the background and a note saying "Congratulations you just unboxed a very rare unusual, this may even be the only one of it's kind" I will like to think they will think twice before trading it to a random and if they do they have no reason to complain.

[MikeV]

Teeird and the others against whom solid evidence has been accumulated should be banned for their shitty, greedy, deceptive behavior.

This.

Seriously, SourceOP rep threads are what the vast majority of people get referred to when they ask for rep. This is an extremely busy and reputable community of buying/selling/trading.

So the fact that these pathetic pieces of feces that blatantly rip off ignorant traders can just sell the shit right back on here, is absolutely ridiculous.

What is a Scammer?

A scammer is anyone that uses deception, thievery, lies, or anything that is underhanded to take advantage of or steal from another trader.

Pretty cut 'n dry to me.

I guess it's cool to have scammers just roam about on here like it's no big deal.

[Hamstar]

2. A "reverse trade" button would be an absolute and utter failure

I'd love to see what post you guys are reading that there's a magic button, or instant undo of all trades ever on a whim. I suggested an opportunity to reverse trades - a possible course of action that traders can go through, meeting certain strict requirements (which will exclude 90% of traders because none of them seem to have the power to read, rules or otherwise).
Given a formal process, with strict guidelines (e.g. proof something nefarious happened), with a team dedicated to security/trading policing, a trader could have an opportunity for it to be overturned. This can be further shored up by the team not acting independent of the community which is not Valve's usual thing. They can engage with SR, or some of the reputable members of the community for consulting.
The true biggest stumbling block is hiring multi language support. With Russia and LatAm being huge markets, it'd be in their interest to not ignore them.

I apologize for phrasing it that way. I just don't think Valve has the internal resources to deal with what comes down to bad trades. I mean, just imagine the further deluge of whiny trade reversal requests for stuff like, "I traded 2.44 ref for a key when I saw my friend get a key for 2 ref!"

It's just not in their best interest to start accepting requests like this.

As for sharks on these forums, we have and continue to discuss the issue and I'm going to leave it at that. Any official policy change will come form Pete or Me.

Thanks for the update.

[Snarf]

Okay Dopp. I want you to picture this. You are an administrator for steam, and your job is to deal with a bunch of minors, who don't know how to handle the english language, let alone their own money.
Now do you possibly see why A. Nobody wants to fucking do this. B. It's a waste of resources to govern something that should not be governed. C. It is absolutely impossible to govern this efficiently without enforcing trading without money or having some kind of paypal thing through steam, at which point there likely would not be a reason to even have this team.

[TheDopp]

Okay Dopp. I want you to picture this. You are an administrator for steam, and your job is to deal with a bunch of minors, who don't know how to handle the english language, let alone their own money.
Now do you possibly see why A. Nobody wants to fucking do this. B. It's a waste of resources to govern something that should not be governed. C. It is absolutely impossible to govern this efficiently without enforcing trading without money or having some kind of paypal thing through steam, at which point there likely would not be a reason to even have this team.

I already have, which is why I stated earlier there would be a defined process for things. This isn't just 'omg my trade needs to be reversed cause omg' it's an all inclusive team that handles hijacks, scams, sharks, VAC bans, etc.
Also it should be governed. It's already governed by the community with SteamRep in some ways, marking those who scam/hijack/etc. This is just Valve absorbing it and actually attempting good customer service.
And they don't need to formalize a steam wallet. At least not at first. Again, the SR point above fits here. And when they do add the wallet, or at least 'Mann-co bucks', an item that is worth actual value in the Mann-co store or something, they'll especially need the team to handle disputes, chargebacks, and other stupid crap.
I would LOVE to lead this team, write the processes, the tools required to track stuff, the integration of a true trader rep system, formalize an actual dirt mall in-game where anyone can sell anything at any time, a Mann-Co mall where players can setup their own storefronts. I know the best practices and the coding, and I know how much of a boon to the face of Valve it would be to focus this hard on customer service.

In any event it won't happen because Valve's focus isn't customer service/satisfaction. And it's a shame.

(For the record I get stupid passionate about customer service, process improvement and the like.)