[PanPanPan111 alt]

Good morning,
Last night I was banned for 7 days from the 24/7 2fort server for "instigating an admin". Here's how the situation happened as I remember it:
-Someone was capping the intel
-In the chat, someone said not to cap
-Harrylerman said "capping is allowed. Telling others how to play is not."
-Someone else said "crits on cap ruin some gameplay"
-I said "Yes, it's really annoying"
-Harrylerman: "If you have an issue with it, you can take it to the discord server or the forums"

(At this point I have no clue that harrylerman is an admin. I remembered him in prior sessions earlier in the year where he would act incredibly immaturely by insulting me through chat. So I thought he was trying to impersonate an admin and decided to comment on that.)

-I say: "Are you a mod? I think not."
-He says "oh ok"

Annnnd he bans me for 7 days. What?

So this one comment warrants me being banned for a whole week? No warning, no gag, no kick, nothing. It wasn't a personal attack on him in any form, nor instigation. Just instantly banned.
To provide some context, a few months ago Harrylerman once was trying to cap the intel in a game and I was on the other team. I kept killing him, so he joins spectator and starts saying "ALL YOU DO IS SIT IN SPAWN AND CAMP. THIS IS THE STATE OF TF2 IN 2020," and other comments of that nature. This went on for a few minutes and was really irritating for me, so I was arguing with him in chat until he stopped. Note that he was not an admin at this time.

So I'm also a bit suspicious that this ban was charged by personal resentment towards me and wanted to get back at me months later, which would explain the severity of the ban.

Hope I've explained the situation well.

[Butane]

I have a pretty good idea of what happened and your version does not differ from his in any meaningful way.

It appears he did follow posted policy in giving a warning for users trying to enforce community rules. By extension, it appears you then decided to talk/disagree with him about it, against server rules and he gave you the correct action to address your concern if you so desired, take it to the forums, this was your warning. Admin or Mod or no staff, rules still apply 24/7/366*, just because you did not know he was staff or know any staff was on is not a free pass to break the rules or question someone who was giving accurate information because you disagree. In this context, I see nothing wrong with what he did.

https://forums.sourceop.com/threads/1604...s-and-FAQs
-Specifically second to last FAQ entry.


If you have further issues with him, please document them preferably with .dem files (or screenshots if you cant record a .dem file) and post them here on the forums for review.

Thanks.

[PanPanPan111 alt]

Thanks for the response.
I still fail to see how I was "instigating" him. I stated my opinion on how capturing the intel is annoying (like other people were stating), and then I questioned him. Never did I disagree with the community rules he posted, nor did I disagree with him when he said that capping is allowed, nor did I tell other people how to play the game. His "warning" was so vague and seemed more like mockery of a mod than an actual warning. If it was a warning, he should have actually said so instead of telling me to go to the forums to argue something that I don't even have a problem with.

I don't agree with the idea that not knowing he was an admin is irrelevant, because while that is true for other scenarios, the content of my question was entirely dependent on exactly that: me not knowing that he was an admin.
How could I be banned for "instigating an admin" when I wasn't even aware that it was an admin who I was "instigating"? I was questioning why he was so inclined to behave like a mod, because I quite literally did NOT know that he was one. How is that instigating him? I wasn't actively targeting him, I was ignorant of the fact that he was an admin, which is why I questioned him for that. If I didn't know he was an admin, then from my perspective, I wasn't "instigating" an admin, right? So I just got banned for a rule I wasn't made aware I was violating.

I am upset with this ban because the warning I received lacked any form of clarity and my "instigation" of an admin was literally out of ignorance of his rank as an admin.


Edit: is there any way I can personally contact him to sort out my problems with him?

[Butane]

His warning was pretty much a cut and paste directly from the Rules/FAQ same as many other admins do, including myself. Again, rules apply regardless if admins present or not, this includes but is not limited to the previous Rule/FAQ entry referenced. For the last point you make, didn't know, this is also covered in the last Rules/FAQ entry (in the first post)

I encourage you to add him directly on steam if you have any issues you want to work out with him, short of that, you can send me an email directly and Ill make sure its passed on.

Thanks.

[PanPanPan111 alt]

He denied my friend request so looks like he doesn't care at all, which is a bit of a shame. I'll be sure to email you a couple of questions regarding harrylerman's motives and his personal experience/resentment towards me from prior situations.

I still feel like I was unfairly treated, the rules were unclear, protocol was confusing, and this was all around just a terrible experience on my end. However, unlike some people in my situation, I'll be willing to stick this one out instead of complain about it all week.
Thanks for communicating with me, I hope this doesn't happen again and I await my return on the server.


Edit: Just something I noticed after the fact, but when I was calling him out, it was because I believed he was violating this rule with his "warning" (I took this from the FAQ and rules):

Trying to enforce arbitrary "community rules:"
1. Warn
2. 1 week ban
3. Lifetime ban

So yeah, that's why I was calling him out for presumably breaking this rule because I interpreted his "warning" as a random person (NOT an admin) trying to enforce the rules, when that is not allowed. But since he concealed his admin status I wasn't able to correctly distinguish the warning from someone violating the rules, leading to my ban. Just something to consider.

[Butane]

You were warned about commenting on admin/rules in server, your own original post says as much. You were not treated unfairly, action taken was consistent with the posted rules/FAQ, "an extended break from the server". Not knowing he was admin, irrelevant, such discussions are still not allowed and you continued on with him by your own accord, hence the reason given instigating. Everything here I thought I already summed up above. I dont think your last reply had the intended effect you thought it was going to have, so I am going to save you additional headache and close this out for good.

Thanks.